Nick, every word you write is true, but I would like to add a further factor. This is the moment that the British habit of following America's lead becomes a tragedy, not a help.
The same is true of Germany. Of course, Musk's support for AfD has nothing at all to do with the huge fines the Federal Justice Office (BfJ) might impose for his hate speech on Twitter. Absolutely nothing at all.
No, all this comes from his own deep belief, as a true son of Apartheid. He might have found an ideological ally in Putin, but he doesn’t need Russia (unlike China). Plus, he’s a bit nuts and a drug addict.
No, he’s in favour of targeted immigration of tech engineers and the like from poor countries (mostly India) that he can underpay. But yeah, MAGA hates that too. Modi is promising big contracts in India, so Trump likes it too. It makes sense, from a commercial perspective.
You might be reassured to learn that much Western European coverage of this is indignant. It’s all « we Europeans must stick together », without a single mention of Brexit. Some things bring out family feelings beyond the squabbles. Same with readers’ comments (even more so).
Musk thinks he’s a genius but he’s not, all I see in the next few years is chaos, group think, and destruction, all hail the stupid leader.its really easy to start a fire (apologies it’s a terrible analogy) but controlling it not so much, its already kicked off and whos supposed to come to the rescue (ha) those idiots
The problem is, as we are seeing with the LA Fires, the US Federal System is going to allow Trump and Musk to take credit for all of the things that go right in America, even if they happen in despite of them, for the next 4 years and they are going to blame every single thing that goes wrong on the State or Local Govt in the area the problem happens in
Nick, I share your feeling that we have entered a new and very unpleasant reality. I wrote this comment on December 29.
Surrealist art was invented a 100 years ago. Think Salvador Dali with melting watches. Now, With Trump and Musk and the other cavalcade of clowns, surrealism has made its way out of art museums and we live in a surreal world.
You would have thought it would have happened long before now, but now finally can people stop pretending that Dominic Cummings is anything other than a malignant fungus on UK Democracy. We see far too many 'reasonably conservatives' who 'well but' Cummings and pretend he has some positive traits or is worth listening too.
He is someone who has repeatedly proved he has no qualms about lying to advance his political agenda and if you ever make the mistake of reading his interminable blogposts, you see the absolute perfect definition of a stupid persons idea of a smart person.
He recently did his reading list for 2024, never mind the fact that he openly admitted he had not himself read half the books on there, it was a comical list, in that it was the exact list a first year Uni student would write if he was trying to impress a girl by showing how deep and intellectual he was, but was in fact just showing how shallow his actual thinking was. The time to even 'yeah but' his intellect needs to stop, the guy is a moron only to happy to play on peoples prejudices by lying to advance his agenda, he should be treated in the same way as Tommy Robinson and just rejected by all decent people
The thing that really irritates me about him is that he is just obviously a stupid persons idea of a smart person, he is so obviously a comical fraud who puts on laughable intellectual airs and graces, but way way way too many people who should know better act like he is worthy of respect
Musk may be the richest man in the world but as David Allen Green wrote in the FT yesterday he does not make the rules. Trump’s one ‘positive’ character is his waywardness and even he doesn’t decide the law.
This is true but writing them and enacting them are not the same thing. DAG’s point - wealth doesn’t grant Musk sovereignty though I suspect you have read the piece. National states, he quotes Brazil in relation to X, set the rules as the UK will do too.
Britains obscene libel laws could actually come in handy here
If Starmer had any political nous and some guts he would push a law through Parliament this week that any post on a social media feed that is promoted (so is put into the feeds of people who do not follow the person posting it) as far as the law is concerned has been 'published' by the platform and the platform is held to the same legal standard as any other media org. No more of this myth that social media platforms are just the phone company and you can't hold BT Responsible for what is said on a phone, once they promote a tweet, facebook post or link, then those platforms are 'publishing' the post and are thus held liable. Then Musk and Zuckerberg have a choice, turn off access to their platforms in the UK or stop using the algorithm to promote posts in the UK or (and this would be the option talked about by Labour when people claim this would kills the social media platforms) they could employ actual humans to review posts before they are promoted, god knows the platforms have enough money to do this.
Secondly, you must have seen the scam ads on Youtube, Facebook and Twitter, well pass a law that if the platform has taken money to advertise something and that thing turns out to be a scam or an invitation to fraud, or uses a celebrity or well known persons face and name as the hook to get you to click and then it turns out to be AI Generated or a lie, then once again the platform is held legally liable
The power of the State works 2 ways, yes Musk has the power of the State now, but States have the power to fight back, when is a Govt going to find the strength to fight back. Our political leaders to start reading books about the Gilded Age and how the progressive era politicians fought back against the Gilded Age robber barons
… and who are in a much better position to influence social policy and, in practice, social norms if the UK ‘authorities’ continue in the appeasing and spineless manner that they have displayed over the last two or three decades. The UK state is under attack because the UK state does not defend its primary principles equally. To my mind, to do so would be neither racist nor anti immigration.
I don’t know who you mean by ‘liberals’, but the LibDems aren’t in government. If you mean the left or centre-left, say so. Liberals are centre-right.
Now for your argument : most people have no problem whatsoever with the notion that no enemy of democracy, plurality and rule of law, regardless of origin or political leaning, should be allowed to run amok and ruin the country. That applies to extremism of all types, nativist far-right like Yaxley-Lennon, billionaire far-right like Musk, Salafists and Muslim Brotherhood preachers, influencers and financiers, etc. We oppose all of them because they are all inimical and dangerous to our country. Do you?
It’s his only real ‘genius’ - knowing how to spot opportunities to make money and what to give up for them. The UK market might not be as large as the Brazilian one, but it’s worth more. Who buys Teslas? Not the Reform voters or antiquated Tory members.
Nick, why does the current UK government put people in jail for posting about Islamist terrorism, or refusing to use the right pronouns, while at the same time allowing antizionist protestors openly call for genocide of 7.7 million Israeli Jews, and to go around terrorizing UK Jews in the neighborhoods where they live? I'm not sure how this one-sided concern for freedom of expression and the risk of fascists works. Islamists are fascists, even if the far-left love and admire their anti-Jewish racism.
Ah yes, he's Irish. I got my antisemitic countries mixed up. The UK only jails people from the right for posting on social media things Free Palestine cult members post around the clock and chant in protests right in front of police.
I think you may be getting a little hysterical about this and Musk’s supposed power and influence over the UK population. There are plenty of lies and demonstrable untruths disseminated on X and social media generally often emanating from malign and professional actors, including states and self interest groups that would seek to undo us. In some ways they succeed. But they have to chime with the zeitgeist to be really effective. He’s clearly wrong about Starmer’s role and Tommy Robinson but in one way I believe he has done us a favour. We all knew or were aware of the ‘grooming gangs’ but somehow despite the prosecutions and convictions the whole subject was smothered by a blanket of interdiction. Now for the first time we can talk about it openly and the urge to uncover how it was that local authorities failed, or decided not to act, to protect the vulnerable is, I suggest, widespread. That’s the real focus of any enquiry and it goes to the heart of public policy.
If Musk is preaching sedition or open revolt against the UK government and he is a member of the US administration then that needs to be dealt with strongly and robustly.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump soon get’s fed up with him. The president elect’s intelligence is far wider than Musk’s whose genius seems to be very narrow.
The vulnerability of our government to noisy clowns like Musk, is due to its having a huge Commons majority, but no electoral mandate - only a third of the votes cast, and most of those only because the Tories are loathed.
A note of grave disquiet, bordering on panic, is very apparent in this Comments section. Esp in the comments where people propose to get "tough" with their right-wing opponents.
As always, liberals are their own worst enemies. Their weak bigotry, muddle-headedness, mock heroics and inability to change tack, ensure their defeat.
Along with their incompetence. Who needs Musk to torpedo the Labour Government, when you have Rachel Reeves ?
We have to resist and join like minded Europeans. Britain is so isolated if we don’t join the resistance against the far-right everywhere. The next four years could turn very nasty if we do not stand up for our principles.
The Far Right has widespread popular support only because of the immigration issue.
If immigration continues at its present levels - and in Britain, if government and police continue grovelling to Islamists - support for the Far Right will continue to increase.
It's up to liberals to be tough on the Causes of the Far Right.
Nick, every word you write is true, but I would like to add a further factor. This is the moment that the British habit of following America's lead becomes a tragedy, not a help.
The thing is we are not like the US. Musk and Trump are unpopular across the board. Maybe our right is making a mistake thing itself to them
The same is true of Germany. Of course, Musk's support for AfD has nothing at all to do with the huge fines the Federal Justice Office (BfJ) might impose for his hate speech on Twitter. Absolutely nothing at all.
Hope so.
If Musk was a Russian asset, how would he behave differently?
We know he is in frequent contact with Putin.
He could buy and sell the Russian government.
No, all this comes from his own deep belief, as a true son of Apartheid. He might have found an ideological ally in Putin, but he doesn’t need Russia (unlike China). Plus, he’s a bit nuts and a drug addict.
Whether he needs Putin or not, they are ideological soulmates
You never hear Trump criticise him
Both are true.
I still think that Trump’s vanity won’t put up with him for long. He’s openly mocked for his Musk-dependency, and even some MAGA factions are furious.
Yes, Musk - as a tech bro - is in favour of massive immigration.
The MAGA grass roots aren't.
No, he’s in favour of targeted immigration of tech engineers and the like from poor countries (mostly India) that he can underpay. But yeah, MAGA hates that too. Modi is promising big contracts in India, so Trump likes it too. It makes sense, from a commercial perspective.
Musk caves to bullies. That’s why Putin is his new best friend. He listens to his master.
You might be reassured to learn that much Western European coverage of this is indignant. It’s all « we Europeans must stick together », without a single mention of Brexit. Some things bring out family feelings beyond the squabbles. Same with readers’ comments (even more so).
That is good to hear Sophie
Musk thinks he’s a genius but he’s not, all I see in the next few years is chaos, group think, and destruction, all hail the stupid leader.its really easy to start a fire (apologies it’s a terrible analogy) but controlling it not so much, its already kicked off and whos supposed to come to the rescue (ha) those idiots
It's been going on since 2016. You wonder whether it will ever stop
The problem is, as we are seeing with the LA Fires, the US Federal System is going to allow Trump and Musk to take credit for all of the things that go right in America, even if they happen in despite of them, for the next 4 years and they are going to blame every single thing that goes wrong on the State or Local Govt in the area the problem happens in
Sadly, a lot of people will fall for this
You can see them taking credit for the economy Biden is leaving, which is in very good shape
Nick, I share your feeling that we have entered a new and very unpleasant reality. I wrote this comment on December 29.
Surrealist art was invented a 100 years ago. Think Salvador Dali with melting watches. Now, With Trump and Musk and the other cavalcade of clowns, surrealism has made its way out of art museums and we live in a surreal world.
You would have thought it would have happened long before now, but now finally can people stop pretending that Dominic Cummings is anything other than a malignant fungus on UK Democracy. We see far too many 'reasonably conservatives' who 'well but' Cummings and pretend he has some positive traits or is worth listening too.
He is someone who has repeatedly proved he has no qualms about lying to advance his political agenda and if you ever make the mistake of reading his interminable blogposts, you see the absolute perfect definition of a stupid persons idea of a smart person.
He recently did his reading list for 2024, never mind the fact that he openly admitted he had not himself read half the books on there, it was a comical list, in that it was the exact list a first year Uni student would write if he was trying to impress a girl by showing how deep and intellectual he was, but was in fact just showing how shallow his actual thinking was. The time to even 'yeah but' his intellect needs to stop, the guy is a moron only to happy to play on peoples prejudices by lying to advance his agenda, he should be treated in the same way as Tommy Robinson and just rejected by all decent people
He doesn’t believe in democracy, of any kind. He’s said so.
The thing that really irritates me about him is that he is just obviously a stupid persons idea of a smart person, he is so obviously a comical fraud who puts on laughable intellectual airs and graces, but way way way too many people who should know better act like he is worthy of respect
Musk may be the richest man in the world but as David Allen Green wrote in the FT yesterday he does not make the rules. Trump’s one ‘positive’ character is his waywardness and even he doesn’t decide the law.
The thing is that as part of the administration, he could be writing the rules
This is true but writing them and enacting them are not the same thing. DAG’s point - wealth doesn’t grant Musk sovereignty though I suspect you have read the piece. National states, he quotes Brazil in relation to X, set the rules as the UK will do too.
Sure. And let's hope we show some guts
Britains obscene libel laws could actually come in handy here
If Starmer had any political nous and some guts he would push a law through Parliament this week that any post on a social media feed that is promoted (so is put into the feeds of people who do not follow the person posting it) as far as the law is concerned has been 'published' by the platform and the platform is held to the same legal standard as any other media org. No more of this myth that social media platforms are just the phone company and you can't hold BT Responsible for what is said on a phone, once they promote a tweet, facebook post or link, then those platforms are 'publishing' the post and are thus held liable. Then Musk and Zuckerberg have a choice, turn off access to their platforms in the UK or stop using the algorithm to promote posts in the UK or (and this would be the option talked about by Labour when people claim this would kills the social media platforms) they could employ actual humans to review posts before they are promoted, god knows the platforms have enough money to do this.
Secondly, you must have seen the scam ads on Youtube, Facebook and Twitter, well pass a law that if the platform has taken money to advertise something and that thing turns out to be a scam or an invitation to fraud, or uses a celebrity or well known persons face and name as the hook to get you to click and then it turns out to be AI Generated or a lie, then once again the platform is held legally liable
The power of the State works 2 ways, yes Musk has the power of the State now, but States have the power to fight back, when is a Govt going to find the strength to fight back. Our political leaders to start reading books about the Gilded Age and how the progressive era politicians fought back against the Gilded Age robber barons
And when Musk comes for the Tory party what then Kemi?
She's not very good is she?
Sub optimal. Don’t see her lasting til Xmas.
“And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you…”
There are many UK Islamists, with speaking platforms at mosques, who are every bit as determined to take over Britain as Musk and his supporters.
And prepared to use worse violence in doing so, than Tommy Robinson and his friends.
The appeasement of Islam practised by many liberals is a far greater threat to our democracy than Musk.
… and who are in a much better position to influence social policy and, in practice, social norms if the UK ‘authorities’ continue in the appeasing and spineless manner that they have displayed over the last two or three decades. The UK state is under attack because the UK state does not defend its primary principles equally. To my mind, to do so would be neither racist nor anti immigration.
I don’t know who you mean by ‘liberals’, but the LibDems aren’t in government. If you mean the left or centre-left, say so. Liberals are centre-right.
Now for your argument : most people have no problem whatsoever with the notion that no enemy of democracy, plurality and rule of law, regardless of origin or political leaning, should be allowed to run amok and ruin the country. That applies to extremism of all types, nativist far-right like Yaxley-Lennon, billionaire far-right like Musk, Salafists and Muslim Brotherhood preachers, influencers and financiers, etc. We oppose all of them because they are all inimical and dangerous to our country. Do you?
Get an injunction to take down X in the UK until it and its owner respects UK law.
Brazil did it and Musk caved. He might be an arse, but he’s also a businessman.
It's the only thing he understands.
It’s his only real ‘genius’ - knowing how to spot opportunities to make money and what to give up for them. The UK market might not be as large as the Brazilian one, but it’s worth more. Who buys Teslas? Not the Reform voters or antiquated Tory members.
At the very least government press releases should use Bluesky, Mastodon and other platforms before Twitter and Facebook
Nick, why does the current UK government put people in jail for posting about Islamist terrorism, or refusing to use the right pronouns, while at the same time allowing antizionist protestors openly call for genocide of 7.7 million Israeli Jews, and to go around terrorizing UK Jews in the neighborhoods where they live? I'm not sure how this one-sided concern for freedom of expression and the risk of fascists works. Islamists are fascists, even if the far-left love and admire their anti-Jewish racism.
I didn’t know anyone had been jailed for not using the right pronouns. Can you let me know the case(s)?
Ah yes, he's Irish. I got my antisemitic countries mixed up. The UK only jails people from the right for posting on social media things Free Palestine cult members post around the clock and chant in protests right in front of police.
I think you may be getting a little hysterical about this and Musk’s supposed power and influence over the UK population. There are plenty of lies and demonstrable untruths disseminated on X and social media generally often emanating from malign and professional actors, including states and self interest groups that would seek to undo us. In some ways they succeed. But they have to chime with the zeitgeist to be really effective. He’s clearly wrong about Starmer’s role and Tommy Robinson but in one way I believe he has done us a favour. We all knew or were aware of the ‘grooming gangs’ but somehow despite the prosecutions and convictions the whole subject was smothered by a blanket of interdiction. Now for the first time we can talk about it openly and the urge to uncover how it was that local authorities failed, or decided not to act, to protect the vulnerable is, I suggest, widespread. That’s the real focus of any enquiry and it goes to the heart of public policy.
If Musk is preaching sedition or open revolt against the UK government and he is a member of the US administration then that needs to be dealt with strongly and robustly.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump soon get’s fed up with him. The president elect’s intelligence is far wider than Musk’s whose genius seems to be very narrow.
The vulnerability of our government to noisy clowns like Musk, is due to its having a huge Commons majority, but no electoral mandate - only a third of the votes cast, and most of those only because the Tories are loathed.
A note of grave disquiet, bordering on panic, is very apparent in this Comments section. Esp in the comments where people propose to get "tough" with their right-wing opponents.
As always, liberals are their own worst enemies. Their weak bigotry, muddle-headedness, mock heroics and inability to change tack, ensure their defeat.
Along with their incompetence. Who needs Musk to torpedo the Labour Government, when you have Rachel Reeves ?
We have to resist and join like minded Europeans. Britain is so isolated if we don’t join the resistance against the far-right everywhere. The next four years could turn very nasty if we do not stand up for our principles.
The Far Right has widespread popular support only because of the immigration issue.
If immigration continues at its present levels - and in Britain, if government and police continue grovelling to Islamists - support for the Far Right will continue to increase.
It's up to liberals to be tough on the Causes of the Far Right.